Banned Battles - Rules and bans

  1. 11 months ago
    Edited 10 months ago by Belzor

    Welcome to Banned Battles!

    Through bans and few limitations we aim to change Guild wars closer to how it used to be and open up possibilities of a wider meta and fun.
    The Project had a successful beginning with the [Flux]less tournament found here: http://teamquitter.com/index.php/1020-flux-less-tournament-on-26th-november
    Now we have reworked the ban list and want to make it public to be used by anyone interested. Any changes to the list will be done in this thread to keep it visible to all.

    Banned battles scrim night

    Scrim night at Wednesdays at Violent Thunder Squirrels [SqrL] Guild hall, currently in [LaG] Alliance.
    Start time: 7:00PM CET/6:00PM GMT/1:00PM EST/10:00AM PST.
    PM: Jade Belzor (Belzor Hmm) or Wong tai li for guest invite.

    Teams: People are allowed to play with friends here so not as strict balancing of teams as in Teaching scrims. If uneven, the better team can try switch roles, try bars/builds or the weaker team try to build wars them or learn by playing good opponents.

    Builds: Teams are allowed to run anything they want inside the bans and rules. Guild teams have total freedom, Pug teams with a Captain follow their Captain and Pug teams without one can ask organizers for help, look at BB-build thread or play Balanced.

    Setup: One team forms in Guild hall and the other one forms in Temple of Balthazar to discourage spying.

    Rules:

    1. Only Health, Energy and Stonefist insignias allowed.
    2. No armor inscriptions or PvE ways to boost on weapons. +10 armor on shields is allowed. Spec into shield is also allowed.
    3. Dervishes, Dervish skills and Scythes are banned.

    Bans:

    Dervish

    Full ban

    Assassin - https://snag.gy/m1xywz.jpg

    Dagger mastery:
    Fox fangs
    Jungle strike

    Elementalist - https://snag.gy/KAVhjp.jpg

    Air:
    Glimmering mark
    Invoke lightning
    Lightning surge
    Thunderclap
    Arc lightning
    Chain lightning
    Lightning touch
    Tenai's wind
    Shell shock

    Earth:
    Shockwave
    Stone sheath
    Teinai's crystals

    Fire:
    Mind burn
    Smoldering embers
    Lava font

    Water:
    Mirror of ice

    Energy storage:
    Elemental attunement
    Glyph of restoration
    Aura of restoration

    No attribute:
    Glyph of renewal
    Glyph of concentration
    Glyph of elemental power

    Mesmer: - https://snag.gy/fJ1ZP4.jpg

    Domination magic:
    Power block
    Power leak
    Complicate
    Wastrel's demise
    Wastrel's worry

    Illusion magic:
    Air of disenchantment
    Frustration
    Shrinking armor

    Inspiration magic:
    Mantra of concentration
    Mantra of resolve

    Monk: - https://snag.gy/SJuDy2.jpg

    Healing prayer:
    Word of healing
    Healing burst
    Spotless mind
    Spotless soul
    Cure hex

    Protection prayers:
    Restore conditions
    Aegis
    Aura of stability
    Mending touch
    Shielding hands

    No attribute:
    Empathic removal

    Necromancer: - https://snag.gy/OzSmyt.jpg

    Blood magic:
    Signet of suffering
    Strip enchantment
    Mark of fury

    Curses:
    Weaken armor
    Well of ruin

    Paragon: - https://snag.gy/eF9rtj.jpg

    Spear mastery:
    Vicious spear

    Motivation:
    It's just a flesh wound

    Command:
    Stand your ground

    No attribute:
    Song of concentration

    Ranger: - https://snag.gy/uIbJzi.jpg

    Expertise:
    Lightning reflex
    Point blank shot
    Zojun's shot

    Marksmanship:
    Melandru's shot
    Screaming shot
    Hunter's shot

    Beast mastery:
    Tiger's fury
    Bestial fury
    Hekket's rampage

    Ritualist: - https://snag.gy/fDU507.jpg

    Channeling:
    Spirit rift

    Communing:
    Sundering weapon

    Restoration:
    Tranquil was Tanasen

    Spawning power:
    Spirit's Strength
    Spirit Channeling

    Warrior: - https://snag.gy/wIWs7F.jpg

    Axe mastery:
    Agonizing chop

    Hammer mastery:
    Forceful blow
    Enraged smash

    Strength:
    Enraging charge

    Tactics:
    Disciplined stance
    Soldier's defense
    Shield stance
    Protector's defense
    Bonetti's defense
    Watch yourself

  2. Edited 11 months ago by Godly

    Reserved

  3. Edited 11 months ago by Belzor

    FAQ

    What are the goals of Banned battles?
    Five steps, must set the goals high, where one is already fullfilled:

    1. Host a tournament with the Banned battles rules. The [Flux]less tournament went well and we have got positive feedback even though there is work to be done.
    2. Start scrims and involve more people so weekly scrim days might become a thing.
    3. We host a monthly or bimonthly tournament with prices like the [Flux]less tournament.
    4. Banned battles becomes a natural thing and teams want to play with these rules on their own.
    5. Wishful thinking, Banned battles becomes the standard for PvP in Guild wars.

    Why the armor hate?
    Out of several reasons and I list some below.

    • Armor on equipment makes it very hard to balance the game as it is unpredictable.
    • Casters got too easy access to armor making the traditional Backline - Midline - Frontline not as clear.
    • Monks with high armor makes them too self reliant which together with strong heals and prots pushes out midline defense and defensive team work.
    • High armor makes the artificially constructed Cracked armor a necessity, limiting build options.
    • High armor makes it harder to punish poor movement and positioning which can be best shown in split situations where lonely monks survive for a very long time even against two probably overpowered fully offensive characters.
    • Reducing damage also means reducing defense and armor is a big part of that.

    Why are Dervishes and Scythes banned?
    We believe Dervishes output too much unconditional damage to fit in this environment. There are simply too many what we describe as overpowered skills in this class to even be worth sorting out.
    Scythes are an issue due to their ability to hit more than one target, mainly when it comes to balling up and killing npcs in a very fast manor. This makes games that would otherwise have a possibility of having a comeback end, Footmen are not a threat and any progress from a split team can be negated in 5 seconds of Dervish hitting the knights.

    What the hell happened to Elementalists, why so many bans?
    Elementalists got a huge buff in 2012 which completely changed the balance of Elementalists compared to any other damage dealer, both in pure ranged dps and flexibility. It also turned them into the single handedly best and outstanding splitter. The game just simply turned too fast to allow for slower, utility based bars to exist in the game as well as pushing physicals away from smaller engagement and forcing the third monk.

  4. Reserved

  5. Reserved

  6. Edited 11 months ago by Belzor

    Scrim night together with the Teaching scrims crew at Sat, Dec 3rd 10:30PM CET/9:30PM GMT/4:30PM EST/1:30PM PST.
    http://teamquitter.com/index.php/26-gvg-for-beginners-teaching-project

    Some of us will be there at 7 CET already to talk and do as big scrims as we can, come join!

    PM: Can find me at "Jade Belzor" or "Belzor from grim" depending on account.

    ADHD Guild hall.

  7. Best of luck! Sounds like a great idea! Im down to join when I am free!

  8. Ping.

    We start some small scrims now earlier than official time.
    ADHD Guild hall.
    Teaching scrims TS.

    PM: Can find me at "Jade Belzor" or "Belzor from grim" depending on account.

  9. Edited 11 months ago by Lao

    i came lately and played the last 3 games
    was really interesting imo

    will be there for next ;)

  10. Edited 11 months ago by Belzor

    Hey,

    Thanks everyone for coming. I think we played a lot of GvG, and I really enjoyed it.
    Looking forward to critizism and opinions, both good and bad, as long as we keep it civilized. :)

    We learned some stuff too and will tweak the ban list and possibly the organizing of the event a bit for future use.
    Look back tomorrow or early next week for some updates!

    Will try to host this again, hopefully not in the too far future but anyone are free to play under these rules whenever you want.

  11. I'd be curious to see what a metagame in which both Dervishes and Warriors (and the best spike skills like Invoke Lightning) are banned looks like, or perhaps one in which Monks are banned. Probably not something to be taken seriously, but the major changes required would make me want to log on and watch the games.

    Also any chance of watching on these "banned battles" games on obs?

  12. Edited 11 months ago by Reed

    Nerf rupts and a 3 rit backline might work.

    http://memorial.redeemer.biz/match.php?id=446

  13. @K R S ;C H K R Nerf rupts and a 3 rit backline might work.

    http://memorial.redeemer.biz/match.php?id=446

    Sorry... apparently i edited that link in rather than quoting and pasting it.

  14. @Jeydra Also any chance of watching on these "banned battles" games on obs?

    I think a few streamed it.
    https://www.twitch.tv/vildargg/v/105069791
    https://www.twitch.tv/yokogneh/v/105062034

  15. Godly

    5 Dec 2016 Administrator

    @Reed have too much powers now!

    @Jeydra If you haven't watched already, you should also watch Fluxless tournament games. Although those weren't played on current rule set.

  16. Edited 11 months ago by Jeydra

    @K R S ;C H K R Nerf rupts and a 3 rit backline might work.

    http://memorial.redeemer.biz/match.php?id=446

    Thanks for the link it was interesting. I think it goes deeper than interrupts however, e.g. Rits have poor condition removal. They also don't have Prot Spirit & Spirit Bond. Alternatively, given that Rits are weak to interrupts, what would you do if you went up against a Dom Mes - stick a Hammer Warrior on the Mesmer? But you can't even call for Shatter Enchant on Weapon of Warding. Or maybe go up to 4 backliners? Or some kind of uber split build where even your backlines can contribute via Icy Shackles, thanks to Rits having a generally-free elite? I don't know, that's why I want to see it.

    Watched some of the streams and man they were disappointing. I couldn't see at a glance what everyone was playing, and some of the streamers (I'm looking at you Dopos) have extremely unfamiliar interfaces.

  17. Godly

    8 Dec 2016 Administrator

    Just posting as friendly reminder.

    Any kind of feedback regarding this project is much appreciated, be it about the project itself, banned skills or rules. As this project is still in early stages, especially now feedback is important. The goals for this project are aimed high and people running the "show" are giving everything to make it succeed. This project is still aimed for the community and that's why feedback regarding it is taken seriously.

    Basically we want people to criticize bans(among other things) and tell us with what you agree or disagree. Whenever people play matches under these rules, be it tournament or just scrims. Tell us how was the skill balance? is something too OP or something too bad now with bans. Any kind of feedback will be taken in consideration.

    Now if the goal is to make this as good as possible, it requires games(matches). However team builds and who won doesn't tell the whole story. Streams/Recordings helps a lot also, so organizers can see what actually is going on and lastly the feedback from players. I hope people who are planning to play in these tournaments or attending future scrim(test) days, can understand how important this is for organizers.

    All right I think I repeated myself enough for now, however if people wanna make some difference, better speak up :)

    Lastly, there will be most likely another announcement later today. New bans(maybe some unbans)??? We will see. Oh and perhaps schedule for new test day later on.

  18. Skill update 1 - December 8th 2016

    Unbans:

    Critical chop - Was first banned out of consistency with Agonizing chop but feels unnecessary.
    Power spike - Early ban together with Wastrel's but loses a lot of power without them and should be fine.
    Swirling aura - With healing in general nerfed and ranged physicals being very strong, this skill could be an alternative.
    Burning arrow - An attempt to see how this skill plays out on a turret or as an alternative on poison ranger. If Rangers feel too strong, we have considered different paths to handle it. :)
    Patient spirit - With both Healing burst and Word of healing banned, this skill might be necessary and could see it's place in some interesting bars. Hope Monks go build making as never before!
    Life sheath - Old ban which might have been unjustified. Will see how it plays out or if it is even used at all.

    Bans:

    Power block - Mainly banned as we believe it's existence might stop people from running some interesting 1+ second skills. If one attribute bars such as Water eles and Curse necros get out of hand we might reconsider.
    Energy surge - After the buff to energy and cooldown this skill became a bit too much. Together with Pblock and Glyph of renewal bans, we might see some attempts at creative Mesmer bars.
    Word of healing - Strongest heal together with Healing burst and not too bad in many copies. Hopefully by allowing Patient spirit again, monks will diversify, healing not being as strong making teams share the burden or prevent it in the first place as well as slightly removing the reliance on powerful elites which can make or break a team.

    Banned battles scrim night

    Going to try making Wednesdays our planned Banned battles evening. Updating first post with more information. We will also try to scrim at evenings we feel like and announce appropriatly, but it's nice to have at least one booked evening a week to begin with.

    Have fun build making and see you soon at Banned battles!

  19. Ban WOH is pretty huge !
    without patient, u already force them to switch to old spells

  20. Hi Lao,

    Yes it is huge but hopefully can create a more diverse and interesting monk meta which does not rely as much on a single strong elite.
    Patient is back though because we felt it might be necessary to be able to play some bars we "theory crafted".
    Will probably be some chaos in backlines at first but that is why we have the scrim nights to allow people to experiment and get used to it. :)

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